| Is Madden dying? | |
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+10IRISHFBFAN1 datnodude wangtangkiki stritzo bahdbwoy steelersfan0023 ubert123 sgibs EaglePride615 GAV 14 posters |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Is Madden dying? Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:59 pm | |
| I believe that it is dying a slow death. I'm a serious Madden player who has been playing since Madden came out on the Ps2. Back then, everyone bought Madden and played it all year long. Now, much less people buy the game and even less people play it all year long. The reason I believe it is dying is because of fear of glitches and exploits. It has bred a mindset to always go with the simple fix; rather than moving the game forward, the developers deal with problems in flawed unrealistic ways. One of the biggest perceived problems by many players is players using unrealistic quarter and dime defenses to match big offensive sets to run down the run, but if the blocking scheme worked realistically - this wouldn't be an issue. Right now, a DB can take on a 300 LB offensive lineman and will simply get blocked when in reality, if the 300 LB offensive lineman can get into the DB - that lineman will blow him up and move on. In the real NFL, very few LBs can take on O-lineman without giving ground. Adding realism to the blocking would go a long way in building the brand. The way that it will probably be "fixed" is to not allow players to audible from smaller defenses (like quarter and dime) to bigger defenses, like 3-4, 4-3, or 4-6. The 2nd fix is easier, but it doesn't add to the depth or realism of the game. Each installment of Madden needs to blow our minds in order for the brand to thrive like it has in the past. The way to make it right is to revamp the blocking system so players can win or lose in that battle - meaning great blockers will take out smaller defenders and move to block another defender - while smaller, weaker blockers will also get beaten easily by stronger defenders. If this is implemented, it will no longer be advantageous to have a WR at FB in running situations as the WR won't be able to hold up in the run game. It will bring the game to new depths of realism.
I find it funny when players rip Madden 11 and then talk about how ideally wonderful NBA 2K11 is. I find it funny because NBA 2K11 is a tremendously flawed game. In NBA 2K11, an offensive player can just dribble the ball directly in front of a defender who is actively trying to steal the ball without making any attempt to protect the ball - and the defender still won't steal it quickly. The reason 2K seems to get a pass is because its a newer game to most players and that makes players more forgiving. Stop with how great 2K is. It's flawed too. The topics seem relatively unrelated, but its something that's irked me. <End Rant>
The way to save the Madden franchise from a slow death is to blow players minds. The only way to do that is to add new levels of depth and realism with each installment. Fixing the blocking would make the game exponentially more realistic. Adding gameplay depth is easy as well. First of all, scrap the defensive assist. Make A (or X for Ps3) the defensive break down button. Users should hit it half as early as they would to hitstick - meaning the breakdown isn't immediate, but it does setup fast. After the breakdown, at impact - users have a few choices. They can move the L stick to a side to try to ride ballcarrier to other defenders or out of bounds. Hitting down tries to fight the ballcarrier back. Holding up uses the safe route and just rides the ballcarrier down, which is a good choice in one-on-one situations and in a mismatch. Hitting A (or X on Ps3) again wraps the legs. It's a good option if the player isn't moving at full speed. Hitting Y (or triangle on Ps3) goes up high, which is good for setting up gang tackles - to possibly go after the ball to force turnovers. Knowing the personnel is key, as you don't want to try to power tackle a big RB with a CB. You wouldn't need to use the break down button to hitstick, but you can use it to recover from a missed hitstick if the ballcarrier doesn't make space right away.
Fix the blocking and tackling and everything else will fall into place. These enhancements would bring the game to new heaights in terms of depth and realism - and would blow our minds again.
With the impending NFL lockout hanging over Madden 2012, the Madden community needs the best game that EA can put together in order to survive and get back to the success enjoyed in the past. | |
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EaglePride615
Posts : 99 Join date : 2010-02-06
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:40 pm | |
| i know its dying off this year. like i know labbing is fun, but when you cant play ranked games because of how fake all pro is the game gets boring. | |
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sgibs Admin
Posts : 2622 Join date : 2009-06-18 Age : 38 Location : Boston, MA
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:09 am | |
| 8 million people bought the game this year.
No...its not dying at all | |
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ubert123
Posts : 294 Join date : 2010-02-07 Age : 31 Location : Nashville
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:10 am | |
| - sgibs wrote:
- 8 million people bought the game this year.
No...its not dying at all thats $520,000,000 for just games. | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:15 am | |
| - sgibs wrote:
- 8 million people bought the game this year.
No...its not dying at all Gibsy, You and I got into the Madden seriously around the same time - so you should have a pretty clear picture. I'm an ol' MA'er too. More players were buying the game then and players were playing the game from installment to installment. I don't think Madden 11 is bad. It's just not ground-breaking or mind-blowing. Without moving the brand forward, its going to enjoy less success every year. Revamping the blocking to make mismatches a bigger part of the game (beyond just speed mismatches) and giving us a deeper tackling system would make the game feel brand new. It would give it a more realistic feel and still keep the onus on setting up strategies to take advantage with stick plays. Plus, these changes wouldn't be difficult to implement. | |
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steelersfan0023
Posts : 191 Join date : 2009-09-21
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:18 am | |
| You have to realize that it is a video game it is made for enjoyment. If they made madden to equal real life football it wouldn't be enjoyable. | |
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bahdbwoy
Posts : 611 Join date : 2010-03-18
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:00 am | |
| GAV vs FARLZ on today's stream??? Love to see it- i got GAV | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:44 am | |
| - bahdbwoy wrote:
- GAV vs FARLZ on today's stream??? Love to see it- i got GAV
Thanks homie. I've never played Farlz. Its been a while since I've played Gibs too. I'm off the sticks for a while though. I broke a finger that requires surgery. I even had to give up my stacked VGL team. | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:48 am | |
| - steelersfan0023 wrote:
- You have to realize that it is a video game it is made for enjoyment. If they made madden to equal real life football it wouldn't be enjoyable.
I'm not asking for a completely realistic game. I'm just asking for the game to feel more realistic with each installment. These two changes would make the game more fun as well as add authenticity and realism to the experience. | |
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stritzo
Posts : 66 Join date : 2010-09-07
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:52 am | |
| U make a good point GAV i believe it's dying to but in a different way it never dies at the beaginning alwaya after the real NFL season is over. But anyway i think a lot of it has to do with no competition i mean madden ius the only rweal football game out there u got nothing to compare it to really. and second not really the glitching but getting dominated or always dominating no one plays it for real unless ur in a franchise moist everyone goes for it on 4th down all the time it made the game a lot gharder and more rerlistic if they made the game punt it on forth down other then like 4th and 3 or less i can understand going for it but the more people go for it and don't succeed and start losing then they just quit most people take it way to personal it's just a video game | |
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wangtangkiki
Posts : 2280 Join date : 2010-02-13
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:28 pm | |
| - steelersfan0023 wrote:
- You have to realize that it is a video game it is made for enjoyment. If they made madden to equal real life football it wouldn't be enjoyable.
WHAT? Not at all.. So you enjoy when fight for the fumble happens when your player has the ball in their hands but since an opponent is near.. they fight for it.. AND YOUR OPPONENT RECEIVES THE BALL? That's unrealistic. Real life football is fun.. It's also difficult.. It would be a lot better to create your own line stunts than creating nanos to get sacks.. it would be more fun to be able to reach the ball out on the goalline while being dragged down instead of some falling forward animation.. The ball can go THROUGH players in Madden. It will HELP A LOT when they fix that.. right now there seems to be a shield around player models.. I think they can match up the player models with the actual "physical figure" that it reacts to.. Not sure if anyone knows what I mean, but you will see a ball bounce off of someone.. but it really just bounces off of a force field.. It's not actually hitting their body.. it doesn't seem like much, but the ball bounces a lot differently in just a difference of an inch.. | |
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datnodude
Posts : 326 Join date : 2010-02-18
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:29 pm | |
| madden will sell cuz its the only thing available...let backbreaker and the 2k series use nfl rosters then we will see | |
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wangtangkiki
Posts : 2280 Join date : 2010-02-13
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:52 pm | |
| - datnodude wrote:
- madden will sell cuz its the only thing available...let backbreaker and the 2k series use nfl rosters then we will see
I think Madden will always out sell those two, but Backbreaker/2k could possibly have a better quality game because they will actually need to work on their game. Most of the sales of Madden come from casual gamers.. aka the gamers that buy the game then play it maybe twice a month.. The name itself will always sell.. Mothers will buy Madden for their kids.. This will happen until BB/2k's quality is incredible. I really hope that the exclusive license doesn't get renewed.. I will be so glad.. there will be other games to play that are more realistic. | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:54 pm | |
| For my ADD homies...
I want bigger blockers to knock down smaller defenders and to move on to block other defenders. I want bigger defenders to blow up smaller blockers so they can make big plays. It would establish more realism in balance within the game.
I also want a deeper tackling system implemented. Here's what I would like to see...
Scrap the defensive assist button. Replace it with a break down button for a new tackling system. The break down button need to be pressed before tackling without a hitstick. It takes about half the time that a hitstick does and offers increased agility over a yard to a yard and a half of ground (depending upon who the defender is).
Break Down Button - A L Stick Left or Right - ride ballcarrier to a side L Stick Down - fight ballcarrier back L Stick Up - ride ballcarrier down A Button again - wrap legs Y Button - hold ballcarrier up (good for gang tackling)
If you miss a hitstick, you can still access the break down animations as long as the ballcarrier doesn't immediately create space between him and the defender.
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wangtangkiki
Posts : 2280 Join date : 2010-02-13
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:06 am | |
| A good addition to Madden.. Offensive lineman double teams on passing plays.. | |
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IRISHFBFAN1
Posts : 425 Join date : 2009-06-26
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:29 am | |
| I think making the game as real as possible would be d@mn enjoyable. Sure its a video game, and sure there are alot of gamers out there, or should I say casual gamers out there that only play once in a while, but what would those individuals begin to do when the game becomes more and more realistic as each year passes? I am with GAV,some changes do need to be made and it all begins up front. Vince Lombardi always said the game is really simple, it all comes down to 3 things, BLOCKING , TACKLING, and RUNNING.
I think most people do want realism, I think the more realistic to real life, the more enjoyable the game will be. One thing that will always be something they cannot duplicate from real life to the video game and that is HUMAN EMOTIONS. Coaching football both on the high school and college level I cannot tell you how big this plays on coaches, players and everyone involved in a football game. Human emotion effects everything we do on and off the field. This cannot be duplicated at least not in our lifetime. But you can see why so many people hate playing online because of all the cheaters, thats not realistic, these people won't play because they want realism, not cheesing.
You give me a more realistic game every year, updated playbooks WITH COMPLETE RUN PACKAGES within all formations, not just some. I want ZONE BLOCKING up front, and I want good defensive interaction against it. I want to be able to use PA after I have pounded you with one of my bread and butter run plays, and I want the defense to react, just like in real life. IF, EA would make all the ratings in this game effective we wouldn't be bitching about half the stuff going on with this game. Off tackle should work great when you have a guy like CJ running behind a good oline vs a weak defensive line. It should not be as effective with some back with an OVR of say 67 with a weak oline going against a very talented defense. Thats just one example but you can see where I am going with this. I know a lot of the ratings are good and can be counted on but WANG has me convinced now that quite possibly many of them are not worthy, I see where he is coming from now.
Up front when it comes to oline and dline interaction the word nano should NOT exist! It should be all about GAP control, and once again how effective the ratings arepitted between the 2 fronts at battle. Overloads are fine but an awareness from one of the olineman should kick in not allowing for something that the defense is doing over and over again. Don't say they can't add this in the game, have you ever played against the CPU?
No, I think one of the problems is that more and more people DO want more realism, and with that, better play upfront, more formations etc...I here all the time people say, why isn't this play in my GIANTS book for example, they run it in real life? So you can see most people know it is a video game but they want it to be as realistic as possible. Deep down inside all of us really want that realism as well. | |
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ONTHEMOVE
Posts : 30 Join date : 2010-03-01
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:56 am | |
| yea except for all the video game junkies (not football junkies) who dont care about football and will do any cheat/glitch anything to win | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:13 pm | |
| - ONTHEMOVE wrote:
- yea except for all the video game junkies (not football junkies) who dont care about football and will do any cheat/glitch anything to win
If the changes implemented are based in reality, then there will be less exploits. Right now, a big complaint is that some players can stop the run using quarters. The reason they can do that is because regardless of size, defenders either get blocked or don't get blocked - making speed the most important attribute. In the real NFL, if an O-lineman can get to a DB in space - if he can complete the block, he won't just engage with him and dance. He'll knock him down and look for the next victim. Likewise, WRs don't make good FBs because they get smacked aside easily by linebackers. This aspect of football is nonexistant in Madden right now. If it were a part of it, no one would match-up against bigger running with a quarters defense. It just wouldn't be a good tactic. Likewise, tackling is a huge part of NFL football - but it holds just a very small place in Madden. If they fix it by adding realism, rather than removing features that can be exploited, there will be fewer exlpoits and more options for players to be creative with. | |
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Militant X 1
Posts : 1765 Join date : 2009-07-01 Location : Chesapeake, VA
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:35 pm | |
| i don't think that madden is dying at all! i haven't played it that much this season (been playing ncaa11 more) but that is on my part. i initially hated the strat-pad or that"change" in our gameplay with a passion!
but now, i am slowly getting use to making my defensive set ups and it is getting better for me. so...look out...Mili is back! lol!
~Mili | |
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KOACHK
Posts : 410 Join date : 2009-06-24 Location : NEW YORK
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:09 pm | |
| Saying Madden is "dead" is like saying the NFL is dead outside of the United States, or soccer is dead in the United States. It's all about where they're playing the game, and who they're playing. If you find a fun, fair place to play meaningful Madden, you'll see that the game is far from dead. Yes, the game is flawed; just like any other game; but we all must also learn to enjoy the game for what it is too. | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:05 pm | |
| I've conditioned myself to never question anyone's gameplan. It's probably the one thing that has helped me most in competitive games. The game is what it is and if I'm playing it, I'm not playing some pretend game of what I think it should be - but playing the game how it is designed. I'm not the best player, but I have a shot to beat him if we play. This mindset is the reason why.
I broke a finger that requires surgery a short time ago and it has given me a chance to step away from the game and see it clearly for a while. I've not only found what I think is most wrong with the game, I've come up with an applicable fix that would make the game deeper and more realistic. Pretty awesome if you ask me. :tongue1:
My hope is that they actually add this stuff in. I'm not looking for anything beyond Madden 12 being great so I can pick it up at midnight and play it all year long. | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:18 am | |
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ZFarls Admin
Posts : 1689 Join date : 2009-06-18 Age : 38 Location : Boston, MA
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:57 pm | |
| Alive, yes it would be nice to get the competitive scene back but who knows.
If there is no nfl next year does madden become more or less popular. You will miss football right? | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:22 pm | |
| - ZFarls wrote:
- Alive, yes it would be nice to get the competitive scene back but who knows.
If there is no nfl next year does madden become more or less popular. You will miss football right? That TV money is guaranteed and the owners are greedier than ever. The negotiations started at less than what has already been set as a precedent for the players. The players are not coming from a position of strength, but they aren't going to accept less money than what was negotiated in the last collective bargaining agreement. This makes me believe that there is almost no chance that there won't be a lockout. The owners will actually make money by locking the players out - which has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. | |
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GAV
Posts : 84 Join date : 2010-07-29
| Subject: Re: Is Madden dying? Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:57 pm | |
| - wangtangkiki wrote:
- A good addition to Madden.. Offensive lineman double teams on passing plays..
I definitely agree, but they would have to do it right - and fixing the basic blocking should be first. If they added both the changes I said and this too, our heads might explode. I do think this is something that should be in by 13. If they had been moving the game forward rather than making safe fixes, it would have had been in by Madden 10. | |
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