SIM STYLE VS TOURNEY STYLE GAMEPLAY

Sgibs, myself and maddenjamie had a long twitter discussion about "Sim" style and "Tourney" style and the differences between the two. Before any of you ballers jump down my throat on this discussion thread, please know that while I consider myself as a "sim" baller, "tourney" style has it's place in the community. Many will say there isnt really a difference between the two when you get down to the bottom of it. And while that may be true, i think this would be a great opportunity for the madden community and MaddenBible to help establish the difference between the two. There are 100 different ways to play "sim ball" depending on the league you sign up for. I hope the purpose of this would be to narrow the definition down to it's core. I also hope with this thread, SGibs and Zfarls will create some good info for those who are in "sim" style leagues.

Here are my thoughts:

I define "sim" football as running several different packages over the course of the game (like at least 8-12), no glitches (nanos, rocket catches, etc.), no superzones (rushing 2 or less players), no AI abuse, and limited no huddle (not all game long), and no manual gap alignments on def. There are only 10 routes in football and money plays and running the same routes each play is not cheesy to me because mathematically it's impossible to avoid it. Other "sim" standards would be 5-8 min qtrs, package matchup requirements (base O vs Base D, 3wr vs nickle/dime, 4/5wr vs dime/qtr/dollar), no audibling up or down on O or D (i.e. audibling from 5WR set to 2wr or 1 wr sets; audibling from qtr defense to 4-3, etc.). Pre-huddle package adjustments are allowed.

This is different from "tourney" style in that the only thing limiting this gameplay would be documented "glitches." Running the same formation all game and the same 3/4 audibles and hurry-up offense are all staples of "tourney" style play since normal tourney games are from 2-4 min qtrs and starting off quick and counting possessions are as important as anything.

What i'd love to see from MB:

Football 101: visual references on how to read a defense presnap (either by motion or 2wr/3wr weak formations) to distinguish man/zone coverage (side note, who misses man-lock back on the ps2)? Formation recognition and narrowing down possible defenses based on LB's cheating to the line, down and distance tendencies, bump coverage, inside/outside technique for CB's, etc.). Post snap reads such as telling the difference between yellow, blue, purple, lightblue, deep blue zones; contain, blitz, etc.) and the subsequent routes that beat each type of coverage. Reading when to run inside or outside based on LB/DE alignment, etc.

Down and Distance: establish down and distance money plays and schemes.

Gameplay schemes based on the teams they draft: i.e. smashmouth/ball control (giants, jets, ravens, chiefs, browns, etc.); run and gun (colts, saints, eagles, den, oak); balance attack offenses (vikes, steelers, jags, etc.) and the playbooks that best fit these schemes.

Anyway, i know this would be a ton of work, but i also think it would be a good seller for your e-Books as well as creating and catering to a new market section since I cant seem to find any website like MB to offer "sim" style tips.

Look forward to the debates fellas.

StupidDialUp

Full Disclosure: Member of 3 leagues (Maddenrevolution.com (freestyle); compete4ever (freestyle); SNFL (leaguedaddy SIM-STYLE)

I have an overall record in SNFL of 89-20 in 8 seasons, 1 championship, 2 runner ups, 4 conf championship runner up in 8 seasons)
In MRL im 4-1; in C4 im 5-1. 48-15 online record vs avg OPP of 8 (if i remember correctly).

yesss! great post I will mention on this later-

im going to move it as well so it gets more traffic!

thanks bud!

+1 to

Football 101: visual references on how to read a defense presnap (either by motion or 2wr/3wr weak formations) to distinguish man/zone coverage (side note, who misses man-lock back on the ps2)? Formation recognition and narrowing down possible defenses based on LB's cheating to the line, down and distance tendencies, bump coverage, inside/outside technique for CB's, etc.). Post snap reads such as telling the difference between yellow, blue, purple, lightblue, deep blue zones; contain, blitz, etc.) and the subsequent routes that beat each type of coverage. Reading when to run inside or outside based on LB/DE alignment, etc.

Great post stupiddialup I'm with you on every level would love to see gibs get into some of these category's and approach some of the more sim style player but on that note I love what he's doing for the madden community and the way he's reaching out to the madden player with his tips and breakdowns of books regardless of where this goes good job gibs and farls

Surprised this didnt get more play on the boards...see Sgibs, more proof that you are missing out on a new market, the "sim style" baller!

Gibs, Great game again bro. And thanks for calling to debate this further. After speaking with you I think we can narrow down the difference between "Tourney" style and "Sim."

Tourney style utilizes a lot of "gimmicks" (i dont know of a different word but I dont mean this in a disrespectful way. Gimmicks are NOT glitches, just to be clear). Things like sticks, the unbumpable routes, RC, canoe and Gap blitzing. Elite Sim ballers (not because they dont understand how they work or how to do them) do not do those types of presnap adjustments. Do they hot route guys on defense like everyone else, absolutely. But they do not do it to abuse the AI in order to get pressure or to cross up coverage unnaturally. Now unbumpables require you to move a guy in motion, but "real" football you wouldnt have a guy come that open right after the hike. Things that work every time without the need to manually coverage i'd consider "gimmicky." If 3 players can get nearly instant pressure against 5 or 6 blockers then it's "gimmicky." When we played, you edge rushed me every play and without o-lineshifts in the right direction or leaving a 6th man in to block, you got pressure every time. It's effective because it abuses the artificial intellegence of the blockers.

So I'd argue the following is the difference between Sim and Tourney/free styles:

1.) Sim style regulates against game gimmicks while Tourney style considers gimmicks as staples of gameplay.
2.) Game quarter lengths are between 5-7 minutes for "sim" play. Tourney play is from 2-4 min.
3.) Sim play does not allow audibling down (from 4/5 wr to base or from qtr/dime to base). 46 speed is only exception since in sim play any huddle package presets (on game call screen) is allowed.

I think that's about as simple as we can put it and if MB could bring this debate to the forefront and create the "Standard" it really would set a proper precedent.

Let me be very very clear. There is a place for Sim Ballers and Tourney ballers (and I think we could even further the argument and say that Freestyle has it's differences from Tourney and Sim thought it's more of an advanced tourney style). While I prefer Sim style, I enjoy competiting against both styles. Sim vs Tourney ballers require sims to drop some of the obvious restrictions or conceptions (i.e. quick hiking (sim ballers wouldnt quick hike with 30 seconds normally against other sim style players (as you pointed out on the phone).

At the end of the day though, and for shit-talk sake, I do believe that if you give an elite sim baller a random playbook on both sides and you give a random playbook to a tourney baller, the sim baller wins most of the time. That's because in a 5/6/7 min game if you only run 8 -14 plays all game you will get figured out by the 4th qtr. That's when knowing and reading coverage becomes "SIM."

Great debate with ya gibs...please dont lump all us "sim" ballers as people that want to dumb down the game, we just prefer to play more FOOTBALL than VideoGame. And i mean that in the most respectful way because lets be real, it is a VIDEOGAME.

Much love MaddenBible!

Dialup,

No doubt man just as you dont fit the mold of most "sim" players MOST if not all Madden Bible guys dont fit the typical "tournament" style.

The 5 forms of success is the main reason why. We stress this in terms of creating a scheme and it translates to EVERY book in the game.

We could both pick random books and I feel just as confident in winning as if I was using Dal as well as if we changed D books!

If we are looking for simple definitions of Tourny and Sim style I believe the following describes them both...

Tournament - all styles of play are welcome - blatent glitches are banned. Rules are adopted throughouth all tournament play.
Sim- restricted play to replicate NFL situations. No set standard. Sim rules do not carry throughout.

to be honest..... Madden would be the best game on the planet if everyone was a sim style player..... thats just my opinion. Im not a sim player because i like to win..