Thank you Saints!

You tell me that that route is anything other than crap....If he was running a dig (which I think it was) his footwork was horible coming into his break. No matter how you are tought to run routes.

first of all he was pretty much jogging off da line imo..... He didnt even sell a deep route at all, a JV MLB could have read that he was staying short.. And to play off that, since he wasnt selling the deep threat, he used wayyyyy too many chop steps for his cut, plus the cut was slow.

And 2nd of all. He never adjusted his route to the defense....Dude played off of him, and since the route was soo bad he never even had to come out of a basic backpeddle. Wayne could have ran more of a slant like route or at least rounded off his dig.....
These are changes HS WR's make....

3rd of all he didnt even attempt to break the pass up or even try to tackle dude

Manning made that throw expecting him to be in a spot and he wasnt.... Yes Manning should have held the ball but he was expecting wayne to get in that spot.....
And dnt even come back with "If manning didnt knw how the defense would react then he shouldnt have thrown da ball" cause thats BS... Manning knw what the D was doing.. He picked out the weak spot in the D, Wayne just didnt give any effort.

QBs throw da ball just off pre play Defense all the time. Slants ...hmmmm Quick Uncovered Screans while having a run play called.... Throws Brady himself does all the time.

results > eckscuses

Thanks randers.. Im done arguing this, because only Peyton Manning could throw a pick 6 when the super bowl is on the line and it still wouldnt be his fault.. Look at the behind the line view of that vid you put up, do you see where the ball went?? Wayne was running a HOOK route, where he run about 5 yards, puts a little shake, and then plants and spins.. Manning threw the ball while he was spinning, AND it was about 2 yards far right.. They ran this EXACT same play earlier in the game, actually it was where Garcon dropped the first down.. Wayne ran the EXACT same route, so it was Mannings fault.. Nothing will ever convince you of this, because you are hard headed and do not think Manning can do anything wrong when he throws the football, when in reality, where you are not, HE IS HUMAN and makes mistakes just like the rest of the quarterbacks in the NFL.. You and every other colts fan out their just doesnt want to face it because they were so heavily favored and the LAST person they would think would lose it for them would be Peyton Manning.. So they have to blame it on somebody else, because the golden boy doesnt do anything wrong to you guys

Im done

WFColonel56 wrote:

You tell me that that route is anything other than crap....If he was running a dig (which I think it was) his footwork was horible coming into his break. No matter how you are tought to run routes.

first of all he was pretty much jogging off da line imo..... He didnt even sell a deep route at all, a JV MLB could have read that he was staying short.. And to play off that, since he wasnt selling the deep threat, he used wayyyyy too many chop steps for his cut, plus the cut was slow.

And 2nd of all. He never adjusted his route to the defense....Dude played off of him, and since the route was soo bad he never even had to come out of a basic backpeddle. Wayne could have ran more of a slant like route or at least rounded off his dig.....
These are changes HS WR's make....

3rd of all he didnt even attempt to break the pass up or even try to tackle dude

Manning made that throw expecting him to be in a spot and he wasnt.... Yes Manning should have held the ball but he was expecting wayne to get in that spot.....
And dnt even come back with "If manning didnt knw how the defense would react then he shouldnt have thrown da ball" cause thats BS... Manning knw what the D was doing.. He picked out the weak spot in the D, Wayne just didnt give any effort.

QBs throw da ball just off pre play Defense all the time. Slants ...hmmmm Quick Uncovered Screans while having a run play called.... Throws Brady himself does all the time.

d@mn watching that again that was a HORRIBLE route, holy sh!t, i played with receivers in HS that could run a better route than that.

maybe a shitty route but doubt Manning looked anywhere else in his progression

Th3 Ac3r wrote:

Thanks randers.. Im done arguing this, because only Peyton Manning could throw a pick 6 when the super bowl is on the line and it still wouldnt be his fault.. Look at the behind the line view of that vid you put up, do you see where the ball went?? Wayne was running a HOOK route, where he run about 5 yards, puts a little shake, and then plants and spins.. Manning threw the ball while he was spinning, AND it was about 2 yards far right.. They ran this EXACT same play earlier in the game, actually it was where Garcon dropped the first down.. Wayne ran the EXACT same route, so it was Mannings fault.. Nothing will ever convince you of this, because you are hard headed and do not think Manning can do anything wrong when he throws the football, when in reality, where you are not, HE IS HUMAN and makes mistakes just like the rest of the quarterbacks in the NFL.. You and every other colts fan out their just doesnt want to face it because they were so heavily favored and the LAST person they would think would lose it for them would be Peyton Manning.. So they have to blame it on somebody else, because the golden boy doesnt do anything wrong to you guys

Im done

1st of all im a Falcons fan (check da sig..lol)

But as I said in my post... Could manning have held the ball? Yes! should he have held the ball? Yes!

All Im saying is manning made his pre snap read, he saw a weakness in the D, he made his throw expecting wayne to be somewhere (and he obviously wasnt).(he didnt even try)...Thats all im saying.

And even if wayne was running a hook route that is even worse....Just becuz he jogged off the line....He never even sold the deep route (which is more important on a curl than on a dig).....

But the DB never had to even adjust his backpeddle....That meens the route was so bad that he knw the route was a short route, he def wasnt going the the DBs right, andwith the defensive playcall of a blitz the DB had to take a very minimal risk of cutting wayne off....Yes he made a great play on the ball, but with that bad route it was like a 11th grader having to take a 3rd grade spelling test.

And I dnt even knw if the route u discribed is even real...Who runs (jogs) upfield, tries to shake and then comebacks for the ball... I meen if the route is real and if you can find it in real Offensive playbooks.... NFL or NCAA (not madden).. than plz show me....And if it looks anything like that route than it needs to be scraped asap

This is all just coming frm a post I made a while ago about the other Colts players letting Manning down WAYYYYYY more than the Pats players let Brady down....Until you or gibs shows me any evidence pointing otherwise than it is a fact..Plain and simple and nobody can argue against it.

Th3 Ac3r wrote:

. You and every other colts fan out their just doesnt want to face it because they were so heavily favored and the LAST person they would think would lose it for them would be Peyton Manning.. So they have to blame it on somebody else, because the golden boy doesnt do anything wrong to you guys

Im done

ATL fan

ANd I bet $50 at school on NO to win the SB. and I picked NO to win the SB on this site with 3 ebooks on the line (almost had the closest score).

SO how does it even come off that im a serious Colts fan, except for this thread. Since I am a fan of another team I can see a lil more clearly than Colts/Pats fans...Im not blinded by records (which both PM & TB have) or by rings, or by what the NFL comentaters say (ex Breat farve, they r so far on his pole it makes me sick)....I see what is there.

I just dnt look at stats

That also is y im soooo pissed about the falcons ratings on madden....But I havent been posting long enough for u guys 2 see that...lol

WFColonel56 wrote:

Th3 Ac3r wrote:

Thanks randers.. Im done arguing this, because only Peyton Manning could throw a pick 6 when the super bowl is on the line and it still wouldnt be his fault.. Look at the behind the line view of that vid you put up, do you see where the ball went?? Wayne was running a HOOK route, where he run about 5 yards, puts a little shake, and then plants and spins.. Manning threw the ball while he was spinning, AND it was about 2 yards far right.. They ran this EXACT same play earlier in the game, actually it was where Garcon dropped the first down.. Wayne ran the EXACT same route, so it was Mannings fault.. Nothing will ever convince you of this, because you are hard headed and do not think Manning can do anything wrong when he throws the football, when in reality, where you are not, HE IS HUMAN and makes mistakes just like the rest of the quarterbacks in the NFL.. You and every other colts fan out their just doesnt want to face it because they were so heavily favored and the LAST person they would think would lose it for them would be Peyton Manning.. So they have to blame it on somebody else, because the golden boy doesnt do anything wrong to you guys

Im done

1st of all im a Falcons fan (check da sig..lol)

But as I said in my post... Could manning have held the ball? Yes! should he have held the ball? Yes!

All Im saying is manning made his pre snap read, he saw a weakness in the D, he made his throw expecting wayne to be somewhere (and he obviously wasnt).(he didnt even try)...Thats all im saying.

And even if wayne was running a hook route that is even worse....Just becuz he jogged off the line....He never even sold the deep route (which is more important on a curl than on a dig).....

But the DB never had to even adjust his backpeddle....That meens the route was so bad that he knw the route was a short route, he def wasnt going the the DBs right, andwith the defensive playcall of a blitz the DB had to take a very minimal risk of cutting wayne off....Yes he made a great play on the ball, but with that bad route it was like a 11th grader having to take a 3rd grade spelling test.

And I dnt even knw if the route u discribed is even real...Who runs (jogs) upfield, tries to shake and then comebacks for the ball... I meen if the route is real and if you can find it in real Offensive playbooks.... NFL or NCAA (not madden).. than plz show me....And if it looks anything like that route than it needs to be scraped asap

This is all just coming frm a post I made a while ago about the other Colts players letting Manning down WAYYYYYY more than the Pats players let Brady down....Until you or gibs shows me any evidence pointing otherwise than it is a fact..Plain and simple and nobody can argue against it.

Im just gonna end this by saying this.. It was a great play by Porter, Wayne ran a crappy route, and Manning made a mistake by not holding the ball

manning is the better quarterback, brady's the more successful quarterback

There is some sick stuff going on in here and i LOVE IT.

Greatness for the most part in anything you do is typically defined by success...

Why is manning the better QB? He's got better stats?

There are only so many ways to determine who the "best" is. Stats and winning are the two most accurate obviously and then there are other tangibles that come into effect.

But for anyone in here to really breakdown and base personal observations and then determine someone value is very far fetched. We don't nearly watch enough FILM...we don't understand football at the NFL level...nor will we. We can observe and have opinions but in actuality our observations and opinions based off them are typically delusional at best. What I'm saying is that basically anything we say about routes and timing and all that jazz is propaganda that we want others to by into.

So for the record...

Manning is the better statistical QB over the course of his career
Brady has been a better overall winner
Brady has had the better SINGLE season
Brady has not played as long.

Those are the only tru facts to really compare between them...so from that's list its up to the person to determine what they value more.

whose a better QB? Jay Cutler or Vince Young?

Ok lets agree to disagree as gibs said.....
and

"whose a better QB? Jay Cutler or Vince Young?"

VY by farrrrrrr....I will wait and see what others say b4 I start throwing haymakers Mike Tyson style...lol

Jay cutler, Helped the Denver Broncos out tremendously. Turned them into a playoff team. Vince young is getting better and will probobly lead up to be one of the better QB's in the league, kinda like a michael vick when he was on the falcons. Cause if u think about it, who was not a little concerned when your favorate football team had to face the falcons. Having michael vick being a threat in the pass and run game. That will probobly be young in a few years if not better cause i believe young has a better arm then vick. But all in all at the time right now, i believe jay cutler is a better QB the only down side to him is his interceptions.

randers wrote:

WFColonel56 wrote:

This is all just coming frm a post I made a while ago about the other Colts players letting Manning down WAYYYYYY more than the Pats players let Brady down....Until you or gibs shows me any evidence pointing otherwise than it is a fact..Plain and simple and nobody can argue against it.

lmao at this conversation

My point is cutler has better stats but vince young flat out is a winner...cutler has always been a "loser"

Is it safe to assume u think vy is better bc he's a winner?

to be honest we really cant say who is better unless we break down film and look at the timing of the QB and his decisions and things like that, and we also don't know if its the players around the QB that make the QB's look good or bad. But from what ive seen i'd say Cutler is better, but Cutler has had more experience in the league. Young was playing the bench the majority of his season, and now that he has his chance to start he really stepped up. By the end of next year i think young will be the better QB if things keep going how they have been for him, and you never know Cutler could have a breakout season. But right now i believe Cutler is the better QB. Anyone have any other perspectives.

jordanl95 wrote:

But right now i believe Cutler is the better QB. Anyone have any other perspectives.

Record as a starter vs ambigious performance based arguments

I say VY is better cuz he has showed me mental toughness that prob no 1st round draft pick has to ever have.

Think about this, look down the lists of the top 150 HS players in every year. You can prob piont out about 40 nfl players(prob 10 house hold names)

The same top high school players will prob end up in the NFL... Alot of the top 10 names will be 1st round draft picks.

My point is that they are destaned to be very good players.... Most have never seen the bench at all in their football carrer. VY was on top of the world. He won state champ in HS, an National champ in NCAA, He had a good rookie year, he went to the playoffs.....

Then he got benched

Most players of his talent level dont knw how to handle that, cuz they never had the threat of it........

And even worse, TENN won without him (11 games i think)
And he finilly got his chance to come back and he did very well

I just dnt think VY is better cuz he flat out wins (cuz 1 year he didnt). But cuz the fact that he handles a very badddd (and yes I meen badddd) situation very well...
He could have just mentaly broken down, but he didnt, that is y I think he is better

He is now a role model for kids/players like me. In my freashman year in HS I never saw the field in JV, but I worked my way up and after 1 practice with varsity in the 4th week of the season, I somehow earned a starting job in our 7th game out of 10.....And I then went on to start varsity my 10th, 11th, 12th grade year. Earning a spot on the all region team ( and a hounorable mention for the all state team) my 11th grade year as an undersized (5-9, 215lbs) hybrid player (LB,DE,DT)

So his story really touched me 4real

let's have a debate but also make sure to be respectful about it


Ide say VY Iis better based upon his success I. Winning ball games. I think his record is something like 22-10 or something close to that.

I value winning much more then anything...as you can tell...and more then any other position qbs are direct resemblance for the win or loss

Another debate, yes! Vince Young is the better QB, career record: 26-13.. Jay Cutler: 24-30.. Vince Young can win and Cutler struggles to do that.. I dont think Cutler has ever made the playoffs either, and if he did it was in his rookie season when he didnt even play the first 11 games where they were 9-2, and when Cutler took over they ended 11-5

yea but remember the QB is not everything, The other players play a big roll in who wins or looses a game, and the denver broncos never really had many playmakers on offense to be honest. Yes QBs contribute to winning the game but, u cannot say a QB is worse then another simply becuase they dont win as many games, u also need to evaluate the team

I think its clear cut that cutler might be the "stereo-typical" QB and that he's the sexy pick with the big tine arm and accuracy...but VY is a winner...he gets it done.

Now yes manning wins but not how brady has. Maybe I just think winning is more important lol

jordanl95 wrote:

yea but remember the QB is not everything, The other players play a big roll in who wins or looses a game, and the denver broncos never really had many playmakers on offense to be honest. Yes QBs contribute to winning the game but, u cannot say a QB is worse then another simply becuase they dont win as many games, u also need to evaluate the team

Is it coincidence that cutler has never been a winner at any rank? Or just itz not "him" its the guys around him..

And why has VY always won? Guys around him?

Think of most super bowls...the QBs TEND to be the lgs best...at the current moment...in most cases.